My bet? It's every bit as fishy as it looks, fishier (more fishy?) even. But my other bet is that we'll probably never know how this famously paranoid man "took a bullet" and then instead of allowing his team to rush him off the stage, insisted they find his shoe, and then stood there for several seconds, completely exposed to fire, pumping his fist and hollering "fight." Yeah. Sure.
He is a performer, no doubt about that. I suspect that you're completely correct about the chances of us ever knowing what the truth is. I can hear the Firesign Theater asking "what is reality?"
The truth is somewhere out there. Trump was shot at. Most likely? The shot shattered the teleprompter. The shards cut him.. Still shocking scene. Trump and staff immediately claimed a bullet hit him and missed by millimeters. Truth, like everything with Trump, is more complex and twisted to make him a martyr and victim.
Thanks Deborah. I'm not sure what part of my post you view as "conspiracy thinking". Given the former president's record of prevarication and self-aggrandizing tale-telling, I think the questions I asked were reasonable. Many of them were given reasonable answers, and some, like the question of stitches, remain unanswered and probably always will. It seems clear that Mr. Crooks was operating as a lone wolf and it's at least arguable that Trump was more a target of opportunity than an intentional objective. It is also increasingly clear that there was a lapse of judgement or performance on the part of the protective detail of the Secret Service as well as the local police department and, given Ms. Cheatle's resignation, the locus of responsibility looks pretty clear. I'm also not sure which right wing conspiracy theories have been notably effective.
I think the Big Lie was only effective for people who were already True Believers; any rational person would look at the court records and, in my case, from actual experience in working at the polls, know that it was no more than a marginally successful rallying point. They are definitely on the defensive, and properly so; I have immense respect for the President, but his decision Sunday was unquestionably the right one and the Vice President is already a much more effective candidate than she was 4 years ago. The legacy media will, as much as they can, work to undermine her but she ticks a lot of the boxes that they've spent years preaching the value of and it will be hard for them to talk out of both sides of their mouth while maintaining an air of professionalism. Polls aside, I'm looking for a very heavy turnout on Nov. 5 and would not be surprised by a 55/45 or better split of the popular vote. We have a primary here on Aug. 6 and the turnout there will give a better idea of what's going to happen in November.
Good questions! If I were a conspiracy hypothesist, I'd also be wondering how the bullet, captured in a high speed photo, appears to be at the level of his lower ear, not the top, and the fact that he seems unfazed by the whole thing (despite his calls for "unity").
The House committee is worse than a sick joke, and should never try to lead an investigation of this type in this way. If anything, they should be reviewing the actions of the agencies after their investigations are complete or at least advanced. Instead, they're looking for drama, chaos, and scapegoats. And they want to be able to blame the Democrats.
I saw the photographer interviewed on TV. It's hard to know if it's the bullet that grazed him or if it might have been another that was fired in rapid succession. Or it could be, as someone else commented, that he was actually cut by a shard from the teleprompter (although I wouldn't expect a shard to travel very far, especially in the direction of the bullet). Like everything else, we're all speculating about something that none of us are qualified or informed enough to judge. So I'm gonna just accept it at face value unless and until some authoritative evidence says otherwise.
DJT lives a charmed life. While there are plenty of things to be concerned about, suggesting that this was a conspiracy is too easy. First thing is that there were too many people including both local and federal law enforcement involved to hatch an effective plot. The blood on Trump's face could have come from his hand. The natural reaction is to touch the wound and then look at your hand to see if there is blood. That process alone could have created the streaks on his face. Then there was the scrum as the secret service tried to hustle him off the stage. The fact that he was asking about his shoes is evidence of the same narcissism that caused him to rise up an create that iconic moment caught by the photographer.
We may never know the motivation of the shooter, but the fact that other people were killed by his bullets pretty much demonstrates the lethal power and range of the weapon he was using. Trump was just lucky that the shooter was aiming at his head rather than his body.
His body would be a much easier target, no doubt about that. Good observation about the hand; I'm not clear on why his shoes were off in the first place. I don't know that the whole event is likely to be a conspiracy, you are quite right about the numbers of people and agencies involved; almost as hard a conspiring to steal an election. The follow up could be just an astute piece of politics by his campaign team to take advantage of an unexpected situation.
Here's more detail from factcheck.org. While Trump was on the stage, he was at the bottom of a dog pile of secret service bodies. They didn't move him off the stage until after they had received the "all clear". It is reasonable to assume that the "all clear" meant that the shooter was neutralized and there didn't appear to be any other immediate threat. Trump was likely told that too when they stood him up and walked him off the stage. So it isn't surprising that he took advantage of the moment, because he knew that there wasn't any immediate threat to him when he stood up and raised his fist. That is also when he asked about retrieving his shoes.
BTW, I am perplexed at those who claim the God spared Trump for some higher purpose.
If that WERE the case, why didn't God also spare the volunteer firefighter who married his high school sweetheart, raised two children, was a reservist, and gave his life shielding his family from the bullets. Seems like if God were going to choose anyone to save it would have been that guy.
To paraphrase Jesus, "Politics is a distraction. Focus on your own salvation. Don't try to speak for God. He doesn't need your help."
Good points Dave. I have thoughts along the same line. Yes, the ear is mostly cartilage. In fact you can even pierce the fleshy part of your ear and not draw any blood. Yet, the bandage is on the ear......not behind or in front of the ear.........huh? Besides that, wouldn't a flesh colored band aid or bandage serve the purpose if it was needed? I read that there were no stitches put in either.
If the former president took a normal recovery time he would have to be human, humane to himself however the drive isn't that way. He could not point to the other candidate as weak or project problems in quick order. Without solutions other than 'muscular ideology', the words of Politico writer Ian Ward, Vance having converted to catholicism. Why is his opinion on abortion so important? In any other world, who would care? Heavy duty ideology, fast moving, not time for extraction, investigation do not serve far right tropes.
Your closing comment suggests that your view of the 'injury' is similar to mine. Finding out that there was deception involved in the attempt to cast him as a martyr might not impact the cultists, but would certainly make for a hay day with the plurality in the middle. Vance is only there because there had to be a VP candidate and he can be guaranteed not to outshine the other guy.
Trump cannot continue his desultory comments about his targets: immigrants, current government, rest of world not being important, anywhere but on a stage. He must go on…the performance never ends. Facts are meaningless. In the real world a person takes a break after someone tries to kill them. But survival for Trump is continuing the sham, at least in public, as false as it all is.
"Trust but verify" needs no defense as I see it Dave. There's much to this incident that causes me much wonder, and I don't think we will learn the answers we want.
My bet? It's every bit as fishy as it looks, fishier (more fishy?) even. But my other bet is that we'll probably never know how this famously paranoid man "took a bullet" and then instead of allowing his team to rush him off the stage, insisted they find his shoe, and then stood there for several seconds, completely exposed to fire, pumping his fist and hollering "fight." Yeah. Sure.
He is a performer, no doubt about that. I suspect that you're completely correct about the chances of us ever knowing what the truth is. I can hear the Firesign Theater asking "what is reality?"
The truth is somewhere out there. Trump was shot at. Most likely? The shot shattered the teleprompter. The shards cut him.. Still shocking scene. Trump and staff immediately claimed a bullet hit him and missed by millimeters. Truth, like everything with Trump, is more complex and twisted to make him a martyr and victim.
The shock is the only aspect of the whole situation about which there's no doubt at all.
Dave,
I am disappointed that you are open to conspiracy thinking.
Taking on conspiracy thinking point by point is impossible.
There is always at least one seemingly plausible point in it
(this is how it hooks us)
but the direction it moves is always paranoid.
Surely we have learned this from observing
how the right wing conspiracy theories work
and why they are so effective.
Thanks Deborah. I'm not sure what part of my post you view as "conspiracy thinking". Given the former president's record of prevarication and self-aggrandizing tale-telling, I think the questions I asked were reasonable. Many of them were given reasonable answers, and some, like the question of stitches, remain unanswered and probably always will. It seems clear that Mr. Crooks was operating as a lone wolf and it's at least arguable that Trump was more a target of opportunity than an intentional objective. It is also increasingly clear that there was a lapse of judgement or performance on the part of the protective detail of the Secret Service as well as the local police department and, given Ms. Cheatle's resignation, the locus of responsibility looks pretty clear. I'm also not sure which right wing conspiracy theories have been notably effective.
Their "the vote was stolen" theory
in 2020 unfortunately sank in
but they're on the defensive now!
Kamala Harris has them running scared because she can fight.
They can throw everything in their nonsense book at her, but
I believe we will win this, Dave!
I think the Big Lie was only effective for people who were already True Believers; any rational person would look at the court records and, in my case, from actual experience in working at the polls, know that it was no more than a marginally successful rallying point. They are definitely on the defensive, and properly so; I have immense respect for the President, but his decision Sunday was unquestionably the right one and the Vice President is already a much more effective candidate than she was 4 years ago. The legacy media will, as much as they can, work to undermine her but she ticks a lot of the boxes that they've spent years preaching the value of and it will be hard for them to talk out of both sides of their mouth while maintaining an air of professionalism. Polls aside, I'm looking for a very heavy turnout on Nov. 5 and would not be surprised by a 55/45 or better split of the popular vote. We have a primary here on Aug. 6 and the turnout there will give a better idea of what's going to happen in November.
I'm with you, Dave
55/45 or better
We can DO this!
Good questions! If I were a conspiracy hypothesist, I'd also be wondering how the bullet, captured in a high speed photo, appears to be at the level of his lower ear, not the top, and the fact that he seems unfazed by the whole thing (despite his calls for "unity").
The House committee is worse than a sick joke, and should never try to lead an investigation of this type in this way. If anything, they should be reviewing the actions of the agencies after their investigations are complete or at least advanced. Instead, they're looking for drama, chaos, and scapegoats. And they want to be able to blame the Democrats.
I didn't see the bullet photo Bob, but that's a very good point. Your observations on the committee investigation are spot on.
Here's a story on it. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/14/us/politics/photo-path-trump-assassination.html
I saw the photographer interviewed on TV. It's hard to know if it's the bullet that grazed him or if it might have been another that was fired in rapid succession. Or it could be, as someone else commented, that he was actually cut by a shard from the teleprompter (although I wouldn't expect a shard to travel very far, especially in the direction of the bullet). Like everything else, we're all speculating about something that none of us are qualified or informed enough to judge. So I'm gonna just accept it at face value unless and until some authoritative evidence says otherwise.
Thanks Bob.
DJT lives a charmed life. While there are plenty of things to be concerned about, suggesting that this was a conspiracy is too easy. First thing is that there were too many people including both local and federal law enforcement involved to hatch an effective plot. The blood on Trump's face could have come from his hand. The natural reaction is to touch the wound and then look at your hand to see if there is blood. That process alone could have created the streaks on his face. Then there was the scrum as the secret service tried to hustle him off the stage. The fact that he was asking about his shoes is evidence of the same narcissism that caused him to rise up an create that iconic moment caught by the photographer.
We may never know the motivation of the shooter, but the fact that other people were killed by his bullets pretty much demonstrates the lethal power and range of the weapon he was using. Trump was just lucky that the shooter was aiming at his head rather than his body.
His body would be a much easier target, no doubt about that. Good observation about the hand; I'm not clear on why his shoes were off in the first place. I don't know that the whole event is likely to be a conspiracy, you are quite right about the numbers of people and agencies involved; almost as hard a conspiring to steal an election. The follow up could be just an astute piece of politics by his campaign team to take advantage of an unexpected situation.
Here's more detail from factcheck.org. While Trump was on the stage, he was at the bottom of a dog pile of secret service bodies. They didn't move him off the stage until after they had received the "all clear". It is reasonable to assume that the "all clear" meant that the shooter was neutralized and there didn't appear to be any other immediate threat. Trump was likely told that too when they stood him up and walked him off the stage. So it isn't surprising that he took advantage of the moment, because he knew that there wasn't any immediate threat to him when he stood up and raised his fist. That is also when he asked about retrieving his shoes.
BTW, I am perplexed at those who claim the God spared Trump for some higher purpose.
If that WERE the case, why didn't God also spare the volunteer firefighter who married his high school sweetheart, raised two children, was a reservist, and gave his life shielding his family from the bullets. Seems like if God were going to choose anyone to save it would have been that guy.
To paraphrase Jesus, "Politics is a distraction. Focus on your own salvation. Don't try to speak for God. He doesn't need your help."
https://www.factcheck.org/2024/07/posts-make-unsupported-claims-about-trumps-wound-and-secret-service-response/
Thanks. Perspective frequently adds sense to the nonsensical. Nothing, however, makes sense out of the death of someone like Mr. Compatore.
Good points Dave. I have thoughts along the same line. Yes, the ear is mostly cartilage. In fact you can even pierce the fleshy part of your ear and not draw any blood. Yet, the bandage is on the ear......not behind or in front of the ear.........huh? Besides that, wouldn't a flesh colored band aid or bandage serve the purpose if it was needed? I read that there were no stitches put in either.
Thanks, it's nice to have some confirmation that if I'm going crazy this isn't an indicator.
Lol, no your just fine!!!
If the former president took a normal recovery time he would have to be human, humane to himself however the drive isn't that way. He could not point to the other candidate as weak or project problems in quick order. Without solutions other than 'muscular ideology', the words of Politico writer Ian Ward, Vance having converted to catholicism. Why is his opinion on abortion so important? In any other world, who would care? Heavy duty ideology, fast moving, not time for extraction, investigation do not serve far right tropes.
Your closing comment suggests that your view of the 'injury' is similar to mine. Finding out that there was deception involved in the attempt to cast him as a martyr might not impact the cultists, but would certainly make for a hay day with the plurality in the middle. Vance is only there because there had to be a VP candidate and he can be guaranteed not to outshine the other guy.
Trump cannot continue his desultory comments about his targets: immigrants, current government, rest of world not being important, anywhere but on a stage. He must go on…the performance never ends. Facts are meaningless. In the real world a person takes a break after someone tries to kill them. But survival for Trump is continuing the sham, at least in public, as false as it all is.
Interesting.
Thanks.
"Trust but verify" needs no defense as I see it Dave. There's much to this incident that causes me much wonder, and I don't think we will learn the answers we want.